gigtherainbowdrinker: lessie2d: Your point being “games have a metaphysical property not found in smartphone games, that only I can reliably measure”, I assume. From that, I can tell you: you’re bullshitting everyone. Game, by its own definition, is a name you use to describe a person who plays games. Be it CoD, Dark Souls, Sudoku, or even beer pong, you are a gamer, because you play games. The same happens with runners (people who partake in the activity of running), artists (people who make art, however often that may happen) etc. And no, your comparison is completely off-mark. Watching a live cast is a passive stance, while solving Sudoku puzzles, by yourself, is an active one. Solving Sudoku puzzles while complaying with the game’s rules, I shall add. But since you so vehemently think Sudoku is not a game, then please, tell me: what are the characteristics a game must have to be considered one, and how does Sudoku fail to meet such a standard? Hey now I never said Sudoku isn’t a game, just where are you getting all these assumptions from! Sudoku is a fine game, not one I take an interest in but I see the appeal. Since that example was not quite right I’ll give you another, better one then! Warhammer 40k. Now, I’ve read a few of the novels, and I’ve played a few sessions of the PnP RPG. Despite this I know I am not part of the 40k hobby at large! I don’t take part in the actual ‘meat’ of the hobby so I do not presume to say that I am part of it! Is that example a bit clearer? I think it is but I’m sure you’ll still find some hole in it :v oh well If you only play mobile phone games you’re not part of the gamer demographic. Thats just as simple as it is. If all you play are little casual games you can buy for a buck or two on an app store then you’re on the fringe, and shouldn’t be boasting about how much of a gamer you are. I’m sorry that this idea upsets you so much, I don’t think you have a personal stake in it and I do not want to assume you only play games on your mobile so I will not do such a thing. Being a gamer isn’t even anything important to boast about, like wow you play video games I play video games too omg we’re such gamers!! It’s just become mainstream so much more than ever before in the last few years that now everyone wants a piece of the pie because of how cool and hip it is. It’s like…this is such an obvious thing I feel like I’m talking down to you as I type this because of how obvious it is. Please don’t take it that way because I am not! It just feels as such to me because of how obvious a truth this is to me. When it comes down to it, the only people who actually make a big deal about how much of a gamer they are tend to be the casual ones who only play stuff on their mobile, or CoD, and then talk about how much of a nerd they XDD This ‘facebook generation’ thats more concerned with people knowing they’re doing a thing than doing the actually thing itself, ya dig? I am getting my assumptions through logic. Premises: “Gamer” is one who plays games; You say playing Sudoku on the phone does not make one a gamer; Sudoku plays exactly the same on a phone as it does everywhere else; Therefore, through inductive thought, I can conclude that Sudoku is not a game. Since it is only possible through the second premise, which was stated by yourself as being true, I can then either assume you don’t consider Sudoku to be a game, suffers from severe cognitive dissonace when it comes to such subjects, or are bullshitting us again. And yes, your new example still has a hole, in which you presume you know other people’s gaming habits better than they do. And, once again, you are defining other people’s identities for them, or rather, preventing them from assimilating a particular identity as their own. That phenomena we shall call… “erasure”. But from your three last paragraphs, I feel I actually understand what you mean. You are feeling as if this apparent recent surge of people claiming to be gamers is possibly either taking away from your own space in the comunity or “tainting” it somehow. To that, I can only tell you one thing: deal with it. You can’t tell other people who or what they are(n’t), and neither you can exclude them from the communities you are in, because no one rules in gamerland, okay?
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gigtherainbowdrinker:

lessie2d:

Your point being “games have a metaphysical property not found in smartphone games, that only I can reliably measure”, I assume. From that, I can tell you: you’re bullshitting everyone.

Game, by its own definition, is a name you use to describe a person who plays games. Be it CoD, Dark Souls, Sudoku, or even beer pong, you are a gamer, because you play games. The same happens with runners (people who partake in the activity of running), artists (people who make art, however often that may happen) etc.

And no, your comparison is completely off-mark. Watching a live cast is a passive stance, while solving Sudoku puzzles, by yourself, is an active one. Solving Sudoku puzzles while complaying with the game’s rules, I shall add.

But since you so vehemently think Sudoku is not a game, then please, tell me: what are the characteristics a game must have to be considered one, and how does Sudoku fail to meet such a standard?

Hey now I never said Sudoku isn’t a game, just where are you getting all these assumptions from! Sudoku is a fine game, not one I take an interest in but I see the appeal. Since that example was not quite right I’ll give you another, better one then!

Warhammer 40k. Now, I’ve read a few of the novels, and I’ve played a few sessions of the PnP RPG. Despite this I know I am not part of the 40k hobby at large! I don’t take part in the actual ‘meat’ of the hobby so I do not presume to say that I am part of it! Is that example a bit clearer? I think it is but I’m sure you’ll still find some hole in it :v oh well

If you only play mobile phone games you’re not part of the gamer demographic. Thats just as simple as it is. If all you play are little casual games you can buy for a buck or two on an app store then you’re on the fringe, and shouldn’t be boasting about how much of a gamer you are. I’m sorry that this idea upsets you so much, I don’t think you have a personal stake in it and I do not want to assume you only play games on your mobile so I will not do such a thing.

Being a gamer isn’t even anything important to boast about, like wow you play video games I play video games too omg we’re such gamers!! It’s just become mainstream so much more than ever before in the last few years that now everyone wants a piece of the pie because of how cool and hip it is. It’s like…this is such an obvious thing I feel like I’m talking down to you as I type this because of how obvious it is. Please don’t take it that way because I am not! It just feels as such to me because of how obvious a truth this is to me.

When it comes down to it, the only people who actually make a big deal about how much of a gamer they are tend to be the casual ones who only play stuff on their mobile, or CoD, and then talk about how much of a nerd they XDD This ‘facebook generation’ thats more concerned with people knowing they’re doing a thing than doing the actually thing itself, ya dig?

I am getting my assumptions through logic.

Premises:

  • “Gamer” is one who plays games;
  • You say playing Sudoku on the phone does not make one a gamer;
  • Sudoku plays exactly the same on a phone as it does everywhere else;

Therefore, through inductive thought, I can conclude that Sudoku is not a game. Since it is only possible through the second premise, which was stated by yourself as being true, I can then either assume you don’t consider Sudoku to be a game, suffers from severe cognitive dissonace when it comes to such subjects, or are bullshitting us again.

And yes, your new example still has a hole, in which you presume you know other people’s gaming habits better than they do. And, once again, you are defining other people’s identities for them, or rather, preventing them from assimilating a particular identity as their own. That phenomena we shall call… “erasure”.

But from your three last paragraphs, I feel I actually understand what you mean. You are feeling as if this apparent recent surge of people claiming to be gamers is possibly either taking away from your own space in the comunity or “tainting” it somehow. To that, I can only tell you one thing: deal with it. You can’t tell other people who or what they are(n’t), and neither you can exclude them from the communities you are in, because no one rules in gamerland, okay?

Source: fucknovideogames

Much research has been done on the topic of CTGWTMNB (Calling Things Games When They Might Not Be). Some scientists believe that, if current trends continue, [in] as little as fifteen years, seventy percent of all things in the world will be referred to as a game.

If this is allowed to continue, we will approach what the scientists call the Linguistic Singularity. Words will lose all meaning, understanding will turn to slurry in our minds and humanity as we know it will be destroyed.

The hilariously satirical Twine game Is This A Game? (via caramelzappa)

(via caramelzappa)

Source: discovergames

gigtherainbowdrinker: lessie2d: gigtherainbowdrinker: fucknovideogames: Surprising literally no one, women are a major demographic in gaming that, despite being ignored by the industry, comprise a larger portion of gamers than groups that are already catered to. Source is the ESA Psst, iphone and android games don’t make you a gamer, I guarantee if you took out all the people (both genders) who call themselves a gamer because they play those games this chart would look significantly different What makes one a gamer, then? Does that mean that, if I only play Minecraft Pocket Edition, I won’t actually be considered a gamer until I get to play the game on an Xbox or a PC? Does that mean the 2 whole hours I have been spending on playing Sudoku daily on my phone in the last two weeks don’t actually count as “gaming”? Given that smartphone Sudoku plays by the same rules as pen-and-paper Sudoku does, then there must be some metaphysical property that only games that are not on smartphones can possess, thus granting them the title of “actual games”. That, or you’re just bullshitting everyone, trying to exclude people from considering themselves gamers. You have actually hit the nail on the head, which is funny cause I assume you’re trying to be sarcastic, as if playing Sudoku on your phone makes you a gamer! I wouldn’t even saying playing minecraft makes you a gamer persay, for if a person only takes part in 1% of the hobby I don’t really think they can be considered as relevant as people who take a large part in the hobby, if you get my meaning. That would be like if I only watched live casts of Starcraft 2, something barely considered a sport, and then considered myself a full-on sports hobbyist. It just doesn’t really work, but I thank you for making the perfect post to prove my point with! Your point being “games have a metaphysical property not found in smartphone games, that only I can reliably measure”, I assume. From that, I can tell you: you’re bullshitting everyone. Game, by its own definition, is a name you use to describe a person who plays games. Be it CoD, Dark Souls, Sudoku, or even beer pong, you are a gamer, because you play games. The same happens with runners (people who partake in the activity of running), artists (people who make art, however often that may happen) etc. And no, your comparison is completely off-mark. Watching a live cast is a passive stance, while solving Sudoku puzzles, by yourself, is an active one. Solving Sudoku puzzles while complaying with the game’s rules, I shall add. But since you so vehemently think Sudoku is not a game, then please, tell me: what are the characteristics a game must have to be considered one, and how does Sudoku fail to meet such a standard?
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gigtherainbowdrinker:

lessie2d:

gigtherainbowdrinker:

fucknovideogames:

Surprising literally no one, women are a major demographic in gaming that, despite being ignored by the industry, comprise a larger portion of gamers than groups that are already catered to.

Source is the ESA

Psst, iphone and android games don’t make you a gamer, I guarantee if you took out all the people (both genders) who call themselves a gamer because they play those games this chart would look significantly different

What makes one a gamer, then? Does that mean that, if I only play Minecraft Pocket Edition, I won’t actually be considered a gamer until I get to play the game on an Xbox or a PC?

Does that mean the 2 whole hours I have been spending on playing Sudoku daily on my phone in the last two weeks don’t actually count as “gaming”? Given that smartphone Sudoku plays by the same rules as pen-and-paper Sudoku does, then there must be some metaphysical property that only games that are not on smartphones can possess, thus granting them the title of “actual games”.

That, or you’re just bullshitting everyone, trying to exclude people from considering themselves gamers.

You have actually hit the nail on the head, which is funny cause I assume you’re trying to be sarcastic, as if playing Sudoku on your phone makes you a gamer! I wouldn’t even saying playing minecraft makes you a gamer persay, for if a person only takes part in 1% of the hobby I don’t really think they can be considered as relevant as people who take a large part in the hobby, if you get my meaning.

That would be like if I only watched live casts of Starcraft 2, something barely considered a sport, and then considered myself a full-on sports hobbyist. It just doesn’t really work, but I thank you for making the perfect post to prove my point with!

Your point being “games have a metaphysical property not found in smartphone games, that only I can reliably measure”, I assume. From that, I can tell you: you’re bullshitting everyone.

Game, by its own definition, is a name you use to describe a person who plays games. Be it CoD, Dark Souls, Sudoku, or even beer pong, you are a gamer, because you play games. The same happens with runners (people who partake in the activity of running), artists (people who make art, however often that may happen) etc.

And no, your comparison is completely off-mark. Watching a live cast is a passive stance, while solving Sudoku puzzles, by yourself, is an active one. Solving Sudoku puzzles while complaying with the game’s rules, I shall add.

But since you so vehemently think Sudoku is not a game, then please, tell me: what are the characteristics a game must have to be considered one, and how does Sudoku fail to meet such a standard?

Source: fucknovideogames

gigtherainbowdrinker: fucknovideogames: Surprising literally no one, women are a major demographic in gaming that, despite being ignored by the industry, comprise a larger portion of gamers than groups that are already catered to. Source is the ESA Psst, iphone and android games don’t make you a gamer, I guarantee if you took out all the people (both genders) who call themselves a gamer because they play those games this chart would look significantly different What makes one a gamer, then? Does that mean that, if I only play Minecraft Pocket Edition, I won’t actually be considered a gamer until I get to play the game on an Xbox or a PC? Does that mean the 2 whole hours I have been spending on playing Sudoku daily on my phone in the last two weeks don’t actually count as “gaming”? Given that smartphone Sudoku plays by the same rules as pen-and-paper Sudoku does, then there must be some metaphysical property that only games that are not on smartphones can possess, thus granting them the title of “actual games”. That, or you’re just bullshitting everyone, trying to exclude people from considering themselves gamers.
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gigtherainbowdrinker:

fucknovideogames:

Surprising literally no one, women are a major demographic in gaming that, despite being ignored by the industry, comprise a larger portion of gamers than groups that are already catered to.

Source is the ESA

Psst, iphone and android games don’t make you a gamer, I guarantee if you took out all the people (both genders) who call themselves a gamer because they play those games this chart would look significantly different

What makes one a gamer, then? Does that mean that, if I only play Minecraft Pocket Edition, I won’t actually be considered a gamer until I get to play the game on an Xbox or a PC?

Does that mean the 2 whole hours I have been spending on playing Sudoku daily on my phone in the last two weeks don’t actually count as “gaming”? Given that smartphone Sudoku plays by the same rules as pen-and-paper Sudoku does, then there must be some metaphysical property that only games that are not on smartphones can possess, thus granting them the title of “actual games”.

That, or you’re just bullshitting everyone, trying to exclude people from considering themselves gamers.

Source: fucknovideogames

reprobateknave:

frequentfeministidiots:

reprobateknave:

Can an independent game developer please make a game that allows you to play as a normal human girl in a normal human life so that men can see what it’s like to be a girl in the modern age?

90% of this game would be bitching on tumblr about how unfair the world is even though men and women have been equal since around 1965….

I’ve found the game’s antagonist.

See? This game idea is so good the story and dialog are writing themselves. Literally.

EDIT: You should check out Mainichi. It’s not quite the same idea as yours, but I think the execution gets quite close to what I understood of your proposal. It is about the daily life of a transgender woman.

discovergames:

reprobateknave:

Can an independent game developer please make a game that allows you to play as a normal human girl in a normal human life so that men can see what it’s like to be a girl in the modern age?

You should do it! I’m not being dismissive or facetious; I mean it. Whenever someone is like “Why doesn’t a game like ______ exist,” that is an invitation from the universe to make it yourself. No one is more qualified than you to make a game you want to see exist.

At the same time, often people lack either the knowledge on how to present a story/gameplay/character and whatnot, and/or lack the time to learn it well enough to make said game in the forseeable future, and aren’t willing to drop other projects they have currently to pick another one up.

In which case I believe the internet has a lot of people willing to push the idea forward.

(discovergame’s point still stands, tho)

Source: reprobateknave

gigtherainbowdrinker:

If dodging questions was an olympic sport, you’d get the gold for sure! Oh lawdy. :U So I’m done trying to talk sense to you kid, you’re just ignoring logic for the sake of being right and its quite disgusting. I’m right, you refuse to prove how I’m wrong so theres no point to this anymore, I suggest you just let it go!


Have fun being a fag twinkie, or something

I’m having a lot of fun being the way I am, indeed.

But since you sound tired of this all, I will refrain from pointing out other logical and rhetorical fallacies on your responses (okay, just one more: the first and last sentences were, once again, gratuitous ad hominem), and let you go. You are now free to roam the land of the internet and… do whatever you feel like, I guess.

And also, thanks for closing it with a homophobic comment. I was thinking which quote of this conversation I was going to print and put on my fridge, but I guess that one takes the cake.

gigtherainbowdrinker:

Hoooly shit kid I wasn’t talking about YOU when I said white dudes I was talking about the gaming media in general, learn to read why don’t you.


Burden of proof works like this. Person A makes a claim, Person B asks for proof of the claim, Person A then provides proof of the claim they made for person B to observe and take it/evaluate/rebuff.

Thus far no burden of proof have been provided for why she is significant, as such I am not liable to have to have prove otherwise as the initial claim has not been backed up yet. Once that has been accomplished then I will argue for why that is not correct but until then the very fact that this proof is being dodged every time I ask is proof enough! Thanks are in order I guess :V

Not a kid either. Language matters, and even if you don’t notice it, you’re using it to demean me and the others involved (“kid”, “white dudes”, “people like you”). And I feel in the need to inform you once again that this is another instance of the ad hominem fallacy.

And here is why burden of proof cannot be completely applied here: significance is a non-quantitative trait (therefore, a qualitative one), therefore you cannot say Anna is “x%” or “y units” significant. The best you can do in these cases is find a strong enough correlation. That is what I presented to you a couple of responses back:

And Anna is indeed one of the most significant voices in games right now, because she not only understands what it is to be a queer woman in the white boys’ club that is game development, but she also develops games centered around that theme. She shows non-binary (gender-wise) people under a new, unprecedented light: as human beings. And she also pushes the definition of games to areas we never spoke of, further bringing more relevant discussions into the profession.

Which, needless to say, you promptly ignored. If you want to argue that she is not significant, you must first say why my reasoning doesn’t apply.

And then, feel free to explain to the whole of the queer games community why you think they don’t matter. Once you do, read your own answer out loud to yourself, so that you can finally understand what I meant with “cultural gatekeeping”.

P.S.: If you want me to spell it out to you, I can also do it: cultural gatekeeping is trying to decide what is and isn’t culturally relevant, or what should or should not be considered a valid piece of culture, expression and/or art. It has been historically used by the privileged classes to reduce the popular culture status to being something “unworthy” and “to keep the masses occupied”, unlike “higher culture”, like classical music and other forms of art not accessible to the lower classes.

P.S.2: And if you didn’t want to imply I am a “white dude”, you should not have preceded the paragraph you spoke of that with the one you went on and on talking about “people like me”.

gigtherainbowdrinker:

lessie2d:

gigtherainbowdrinker:

lessie2d:

Fallacies (“genuine game designers”) and sarcasm isn’t going to convince anyone, buddy. I suggest you either support your own claims with logical statements and facts, or crawl back to whatever hole you came from.

You know, this has happened before. This is exactly the same as that other time when Raph Koster decided to out himself publicly as an asshole and started attacking Anna’s ‘rank’ as an actual game developer and designer. Guess what? Everyone saw right through his cultural gatekeeping veil then, and everyone can see right through yours right now too.

I see no problem with what this Raph fellow said or did,he raises a few good point that people like you will willfully ignore because that’s just how people like you are I guess :c its kinda sad. I took a gander and what U presume you mean by gate keeping, and I disagree entirely, nothing could be further from the truth! I would like if this person was a proper game designer but they are not sadly ): take it up with them as it’s all on them~

I again point out it would be nice to see some proof that “Anna is one of the most significant voices in games right now. “

“People like you”? I suggest you tread very carefully from now on. Measure your words better if you didn’t want to sound offensive, because you’re doing a poor job at it.

And no one needs none of this ad hominem bullshit of yours here, understand? There are no “people like me”, because no one here knows me. Not you, not anyone. That’s the point. People know the ideas I left recorded here, but don’t know who is the person behind them, just like it should be. Don’t go around assuming to know who I am.

And Anna is indeed one of the most significant voices in games right now, because she not only understands what it is to be a queer woman in the white boys’ club that is game development, but she also develops games centered around that theme. She shows non-binary (gender-wise) people under a new, unprecedented light: as human beings. And she also pushes the definition of games to areas we never spoke of, further bringing more relevant discussions into the profession.

And if you seriously don’t consider Dys4ia a game, then you have obviously never payed any attention at all to Wario Ware, which makes me ashamed of the fact that you consider yourself a gamer.

Well as soon as people like you stop acting like people like you I will have no furthur need of the phrase! I know enough about you from your post to make a judgement call the same way you are making a judgetment call based off mine. For the time being “people like you” works so I shall use it. I’d apolgize for potentially offending you but I don’t really give a shit so

She is a nobody, she is not significant at all! A few white dudes talking about her in a positive light for the sake of their own egos does not make her significant. No one knows about her and beyond a small margin of a tiny community that cares about her for all the wrong reasons, no one cares.

I never even said I consider myself a gamer, why are you making that assumption? You know nothing about me remember hue huhehu Pot, kettle, etc

You presume yourself to know enough of game design to know the actual relevance of Anna to the scene, and yet you don’t consider yourself a gamer. From that I can suppose you either mean it (and lied on your blog description about likind Dark Souls, Disgaea…, oops!), which disproves my theory that every game designer is also a gamer (because we still don’t have enough game designers today who don’t play games, apparently), or that you’re just trying to bullshit me and “turn the tables”. Either way, rhetoric tricks have no effect here, neither with you trying to sound so cool by not giving a fuck about offending me, nor with this whole lack of actual content on your post.

Oh, and do you remember that stuff about how you don’t know who I am? Yea, that also includes the fact that you jut went around assuming I am a “white dude talking about her in a positive light. I’m not. And did you also know that that also was another form fo the ad hominem fallacy? Boy, those are coming around a lot today!

And just to wrap up: I’m still waiting for you to state the reason for Anna to not be a significant person, so I’ll be sticking a [citation needed] on that whole second paragraph of yours. Have a nice day.

gigtherainbowdrinker:

lessie2d:

Fallacies (“genuine game designers”) and sarcasm isn’t going to convince anyone, buddy. I suggest you either support your own claims with logical statements and facts, or crawl back to whatever hole you came from.

You know, this has happened before. This is exactly the same as that other time when Raph Koster decided to out himself publicly as an asshole and started attacking Anna’s ‘rank’ as an actual game developer and designer. Guess what? Everyone saw right through his cultural gatekeeping veil then, and everyone can see right through yours right now too.

I see no problem with what this Raph fellow said or did,he raises a few good point that people like you will willfully ignore because that’s just how people like you are I guess :c its kinda sad. I took a gander and what U presume you mean by gate keeping, and I disagree entirely, nothing could be further from the truth! I would like if this person was a proper game designer but they are not sadly ): take it up with them as it’s all on them~

I again point out it would be nice to see some proof that “Anna is one of the most significant voices in games right now. “

“People like you”? I suggest you tread very carefully from now on. Measure your words better if you didn’t want to sound offensive, because you’re doing a poor job at it.

And no one needs none of this ad hominem bullshit of yours here, understand? There are no “people like me”, because no one here knows me. Not you, not anyone. That’s the point. People know the ideas I left recorded here, but don’t know who is the person behind them, just like it should be. Don’t go around assuming to know who I am.

And Anna is indeed one of the most significant voices in games right now, because she not only understands what it is to be a queer woman in the white boys’ club that is game development, but she also develops games centered around that theme. She shows non-binary (gender-wise) people under a new, unprecedented light: as human beings. And she also pushes the definition of games to areas we never spoke of, further bringing more relevant discussions into the profession.

And if you seriously don’t consider Dys4ia a game, then you have obviously never payed any attention at all to Wario Ware, which makes me ashamed of the fact that you consider yourself a gamer.